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Hilarie Burton Morgan Seeks Justice in ‘True Crime Story: It Couldn’t Happen Here’ (Exclusive)



Hilarie Burton Morgan is on the case. The actress and advocate for justice digs deep on eight new cases in the upcoming episodes of True Crime Story: It Couldn’t Happen Here, SundanceTV’s true-crime series where she puts the spotlight on murder cases in small-town America. Only ET exclusively premieres the gripping teaser trailer for the new episodes, which premieres Thursday, Sept. 1 and reveals the real-world impact the show has had — especially in regards to one case in particular.

“I came into this show representing the everyman. I didn’t go to law school, I’m not a journalist. I’m just some lady that has a lot of questions,” the self-proclaimed true-crime enthusiast told ET over the phone on Thursday. “I live in a small town myself, and so it’s my job to represent other small-town citizens who have questions about the way their judicial system is working. And I was astounded by the level of misconduct and corruption in the judicial system.”

“We have encountered more disbarred lawyers and judges who have been taken off the bench. I think I didn’t understand how frequent that was and how commonplace it was. And how, even after those people are taken out of positions of power, the cases that they played a part in are not reexamined. And so what we’re left with are a number of innocent people in prison, but also, a lot of guilty people out there walking the street,” she explained.

That’s where Hilarie and the show come in. In the case of Devonia Inman, whose story was featured on It Couldn’t Happen Here last September after the Georgia Innocence Project picked up his case, it meant being exonerated after spending 23 years in prison for a murder he did not commit. (Inman had been convicted in 1998 for the murder and armed robbery of a Taco Bell manager.)

“There was DNA evidence sitting there for a decade that proved that he did not commit this crime. And his lawyers and the Innocence Project lawyers did so much work fighting for him, and so we had the really wonderful opportunity to come in and be a megaphone,” Hilarie said of the show’s role in amplifying Inman’s story. “Right as the attorney general and right as the attorney general’s office were making the decision whether or not they were going to let him out, we had this amazing outpouring of anger and support — disbelief from the community. There were letter-writing campaigns and there were petitions signed, and what that signaled to elected officials is, ‘Oh, the people see that there was a screw-up here. We should probably set things straight.'”

“The judicial system is never going to self-correct. The only time that it corrects their work is if we, as citizens, say to them, ‘What you did there is wrong. Fix it.’ Our show makes that the platform for every story we tell: ‘We see what you did here. It’s wrong. Fix it,'” she said.

That’s just one success story from the show, which Hilarie hopes will continue as the new episodes begin to roll out next month. She revealed that her partner, The Walking Dead‘s Jeffrey Dean Morgan, often serves as a guide for her when it comes to how impactful the stories will be for the viewer.

“My husband’s the first person I show a rough cut to, and judging his reaction, I know whether or not we have a good cut. And he has stood up and screamed at the television. He’s teared up,” she shared. “We just covered a case… We have a man on death row. They’re going to kill him if we don’t do something, and I’m horrified by it. I hope other people are horrified and speak up. There are never enough advocates. And so, if we can use a television show and a viewership to show up in mass numbers, awesome. It takes true-crime programming and it makes it valuable. We have other cases where people who are absolutely guilty and have been found guilty in civil trials are still walking the street because law enforcement refuses to prosecute them because they’re pillars of the community. That’s outrageous. For the victims’ families, what a slap in the face.”

“We try to balance not only the locations of where we are filming because small towns exist everywhere in America, but we also try to balance the subject matter. We have a gay rights case that is very near to my heart that I really hope we can muster some support for,” Hilarie previewed. “And a lot of domestic violence shows up in this season because it’s still a situation in the United States that is either misunderstood or not handled appropriately, but we have a lot of work to do in that world.”

Of course, she can’t help but get emotionally invested in the families and the stories she’s engrossed herself in. As she explains it, that’s part of what makes the show unique from other true-crime programming.

“I don’t pretend to be a journalist. There are certain rules you have to apply when you go to college for that. I’m literally just some lady that goes into people’s living rooms and wants to hear their side of the story because what I’ve learned in this process is a jury doesn’t hear all the sides of the story,” she said, acknowledging that she doesn’t “separate” herself from the emotionality of it. “I’ve become Facebook friends with families that we interact with and they are people who I care a lot about… Our case in Tennessee from last year, Greg Lance, an innocent man in prison for a double homicide he didn’t commit — since the airing of our episode, two new people have come forward and signed affidavits saying, ‘He didn’t do it.’ If we can continually bang the drum, I’m happy to be emotionally involved. Some people care about sports, I care about this. You’ve got to really pick and choose where you put your energy, and this is worth it.”

Hilarie and the team behind True Crime Story: it Couldn’t Happen Here are also setting up a resource guide online via Twitter (@icchstories), where those interested in learning more about the cases covered on the show, as well as advocacy groups and justice seekers (like Color of Change, the National Women’s Law Center or various Innocence Projects), and how they can help, can go to for guidance. “What we would love is for people to follow our social media so that they can have a landing page just to find all those resources. We want to make it as easy as possible for everybody,” she said.

New episodes of True Crime Story: It Couldn’t Happen Here premiere Thursday, Sept. 1 at 10 p.m. ET/PT on SundanceTV with the first two episodes streaming on AMC+.

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Bob Odenkirk Confirms Fans Have Guessed Better Call Saul’s Ending



Bob Odenkirk says “about one out of every nine people” on the internet have correctly guessed the ending to Better Call Saul season 6.

Bob Odenkirk says “about one out of every nine people” on the internet have correctly guessed the ending to Better Call Saul season 6. After numerous delays due to the COVID-19 pandemic and Odenkirk’s near-fatal heart attack, the beloved Breaking Bad prequel finally returned to AMC this past April for its sixth and final season. Premiered in 2015, Better Call Saul primarily follows Odenkirk’s Jimmy McGill as he devolves from an earnest public defender to the unscrupulous criminal lawyer audiences meet in Breaking Bad season 2.

Better Call Saul season 6 has spelled the end for many of its beloved new characters, including Nacho Varga (Michael Mando), Howard Hamlin (Patrick Fabian), and Lalo Salamanca (Tony Dalton). Episode 9, “Fun and Games” also signaled the death of Jimmy McGill as fans knew him. Racked by the guilt of their role in Howard’s death, Kim Wexler (Rhea Seehorn) finally decides to leave her husband, breaking Jimmy’s heart and spurring his transformation into Saul Goodman. Season 6 has now fully moved on to its black-and-white Gene Takovic timeline with occasional flashbacks to the Breaking Bad era featuring appearances from Walter White (Bryan Cranston) and Jesse Pinkman (Aaron Paul). With so much left to be resolved, Better Call Saul‘s dedicated online fanbase has been fervently speculating about how the show will end.


During a recent appearance on The Today Show, Odenkirk looked ahead to the final episodes of Better Call Saul. Asked about how the show will end, Odenkirk revealed that he reads fan theories online and according to his oddly specific estimate, “about one out of every nine people” have gotten Better Call Saul‘s ending “dead right.” Read his full comment below:

You know I read the comments and I’d say about one out of every nine people gets it dead right, but I’m not going to say which one.

Odenkirk saying that only one in nine people, which is roughly 11 percent, have guessed the ending suggests a more obscure fan theory is correct, but one that is still common enough for him to notice. This seemingly rules out theories about Jimmy going to prison or reuniting with Kim. A more uncommon but equally plausible theory predicts that Carol Burnett’s Marion, newly armed with the powers of internet access, will find evidence of Gene’s past life in Albuquerque as Saul Goodman, forcing him to disappear again and essentially live out the rest of his days in fear of being recognized.

In recent episodes, Gene has headed further and further down a dark path, which would seemingly eliminate the possibility of a happy ending for everyone’s favorite Cinnabon manager and con man. Whatever ending Better Call Saul has in store, it’s apparently already been guessed correctly and is currently floating around all over the internet, according to Odenkirk. Even so, it’s still nearly impossible to narrow it down and know for sure.

Source: The Today Show/YouTube

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‘The Bachelorette’ Episode 5 Recap: Logan Successfully Flip Flops from Rachel to Gabby



Logan successfully pulled off a switcheroo on Monday’s episode of The Bachelorette. The videographer took much of the spotlight during the latest episode of the series, as he jumped from Team Rachel to Team Gabby, all of which ET is breaking down in the recap below.

Rachel was left confused and annoyed by Logan’s confession, so much so that she canceled a group date to process her emotions. Gabby checked with Rachel before inviting Logan over to her side, and while the pilot gave her OK, she privately hoped her co-lead would send the guy packing. 

Things turned around for Rachel when she had a romantic one-on-one date, and Gabby discovered a new romantic connection when it was her turn for a night out with one of her guys.

When it came time for the rose ceremony, the men were left shocked by who the roses were handed out to.

Keep reading for ET’s recap of episode 5 of The Bachelorette.

Logan Breaks Up With Rachel

Logan entered the week with his mind “ping ponging” between Rachel and Gabby, and when he found his name on the group date card he decided it was time to confess to the pilot.

He surprised Rachel at her room ahead of the date, and told her that he was “honored” to accept her roses, but the “strong connection” he formed with Gabby on night one had been holding him back.

“At the end of the night, I originally thought I was going to receive a rose from Gabby. It’s been hard for me, moving forward, to kind of forget about that connection,” he said. “… I can’t go today and I’m going to have to step away from pursuing things with you.”

Rachel handled the situation well in front of Logan, but the continued rejection caused her to break down in a confessional.

“Everyone is leaving me. It’s the rejection that just feels really awful,” she told the cameras. “… Something’s clearly wrong with me, but I don’t know… This is supposed to be my time to find someone, and everyone’s rejected me, week after week after week… Why don’t they all just leave, so at least I don’t have to say I quit.”

As she dealt with her emotions, Rachel canceled her group date because she couldn’t go there “and act like I don’t feel like a huge loser.”

“The worst part about Logan is the whole time he was just seeing how far he could get before he could switch to Gabby,” Rachel cried in a confessional. “… This is two weeks before Hometowns that this is happening. I should have at least seven guys who want to be here for me and I don’t. I’m literally such a failure as a Bachelorette.” 

After a heart-to-heart with host Jesse Palmer, who assured Rachel that it’d be “impossible” to be a perfect lead, Rachel agreed to go to the after-party portion of her group date. While most of the guys were understanding after Rachel explained the situation, Tino was upset by the canceled portion of the date.

“I want to be your person, that’s why I’m here. I want to be your best friend,” Tino told Rachel. “… I’ll take any piece of you, any day, and today we lost something that I know we could’ve made an amazing memory. Today hurt a little bit. It made me feel a little unseen.” 

The honesty worked for Rachel who offered Tino the rose at the end of the night.

Team Gabby Adds a Member

After breaking things off with Rachel, Logan went to have a conversation with Gabby, telling her that he was “on fire” for her the first night. Gabby confirmed that Logan’s feelings weren’t one-sided, and confessed of herself and Rachel, “You were pretty much our only overlap in the beginning.” 

Despite her initial feelings for Logan, Gabby said she “completely backed away” after hearing about his connection with Rachel. As such, Gabby told Logan she’s have to talk things over with Rachel before making up her mind.

During that conversation, Rachel lamented how “humiliating” the whole thing was, and said she wondered how long Logan would’ve accepted her roses before jumping ship.

“I don’t want you to be thinking about me so much that, if you genuinely think something could be there, you lose it,” Rachel told Gabby, who admitted that she would like to “explore it more” with Logan. 

“I don’t think Logan is trustworthy. He strung me along for weeks and I just really don’t want that to happen to Gabby in the future and for her to feel as bad as I do right now,” Rachel said in a confessional after giving Gabby her blessing. “At the end of the day, I’m going to support her no matter what, but I really hope Gabby sends him home.” 

Gabby went on a group date next; she and her guys went on a boat, made waffles, played soccer with kids and hit each other in the face with fish. After a great day out and about in Belgium, Gabby’s guys were shocked to see Logan strut into the after-party.

“I got word today that she wants me to have an opportunity to pursue her,” Logan told Gabby’s other suitors after explaining that he’d ended things with Rachel.

Nate was left “confused” by the addition, Spencer said that Logan’s arrival made him “question how strong is my relationship with Gabby,” and Erich was wondering if the videographer was “calculated” in his decisions. At the end of the night, despite a good conversation with Logan, Gabby ended up awarding the group date rose to Nate.

Rachel Can See Herself Falling in Love With Aven

Rachel put the negativity behind her during a picture-perfect one-on-one date with Aven, someone she said she feels “really safe” with. They rode a horse-drawn carriage, wandered around the city and enjoyed a chocolate shop, before entering into a romantic nighttime date.

As Rachel prepared herself for “the other shoe to drop,” Aven opened up about his childhood, during which time his relationship with his mom was “through a phone.” They “got really close” as he got older, though, and he recently gifted him a rubber bracelet that she made.

“Kind of seeing how these last couple weeks have been tough for you, I think if you hold onto it for a while, maybe it will turn your experience and all this around,” Aven told Rachel as he offered her the bracelet. She, in turn, offered him a rose.

“I’ve never felt this strong of a connection, or this natural of a connection, so quickly,” Aven told the cameras. “… I really do see Rachel as someone who could be my future wife.” 

“I could easily see myself falling in love with Aven,” Rachel said in a confessional, “and I feel like I’m almost there.”

‘It’s Just the Beginning’ With Gabby and Johnny

Gabby was excited leading up to her date with Johnny, telling the cameras, “He’s so macho and too cool for school, which normally I’d hate, but he pulls it off because he’s so goofy.” 

The pair’s date kicked off in a brewery as they enjoyed a beer flight, sat in a beer bath, gave each other massages and got silly together.

Entering into the nighttime portion of the date, Gabby questioned if things could get deeper with Johnny. He quickly proved that they could as he opened up about his struggles with depression and self-confidence. Gabby revealed her similar struggles with anxiety and depression, and how she’s felt “broken” in the past.

Gabby gave Johnny the rose and praised him in a confessional for his “willingness to be vulnerable.”

“All the things he’s scared to put forth are the things I love the most,” Gabby told the cameras of Johnny. “… I know it’s just the beginning for us.”

Logan’s Gamble Pays Off

At the cocktail party, Gabby gifted Nate Belgian chocolate for his daughter and Logan wondered about his “pretty slim” odds before the rose ceremony began.

When the rose ceremony got underway, Gabby handed out roses to Jason, Spencer, Erich and Logan, while Rachel did so to Zach, Tyler and Ethan. Meatball went home on Rachel’s side, while Mario and Michael were eliminated for Team Gabby.

Logan was shocked and thrilled by the turn of events, telling the cameras, “It’s an even playing field now and it’s anyone’s game, so it might as well be my game.”

The Bachelorette airs Mondays on ABC. Keep up with the historic season by following along with ET’s coverage of the series.


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‘Better Call Saul’ Co-Creator Vince Gilligan on Kim’s Brush With ‘Breaking Bad’ and Setting the Finale Stage



Spoiler alert: Do not read if you haven’t watched “Waterworks,” Episode 12 of “Better Call Saul” now streaming on AMC+.

It’s the episode of “Better Call Saul” that fans had been waiting to see, well, forever. The fate of Kim Wexler is finally explained in Monday night’s penultimate “Better Call Saul” episode, “Waterworks.” Through a flashback, we see Kim in Albuquerque during the “Breaking Bad” timeline — and she even interacts with Jesse Pinkman, who bums a cigarette and asks whether Saul Goodman is any good. “When I knew him, he was,” she tells the kid.

Variety spoke to “Breaking Bad” creator and “Better Call Saul” co-creator Vince Gilligan, who wrote and directed “Waterworks,” about the episode, including the moment when Kim (Rhea Seehorn) finally lets it all out (in other words, the “Waterworks” of the episode title). Kim, exhausted by her quick trip to Albuquerque, plops on an airport shuttle bus and is ready to go back home to Florida. But as the bus rattles toward her terminal, the enormity of everything she’s been through begins to bubble up from inside. It’s then that she erupts in sobs, no longer able to hold it all in.

“It was a long time coming,” Gilligan says. “She didn’t get killed, she’s not dead, she still exists in this world and the world of ‘Better Call Saul’ and ‘Breaking Bad’ all the way through to the end — and hopefully long beyond.” (And by the way, sitting next to her on the bus is Gilligan’s longtime significant other, Holly Rice, in an uncredited cameo.)

In the black-and-white 2010 world of “Better Call Saul,” Kim is working for Palm Coast Sprinkler, and living a mundane life with a boring boyfriend (Alvin Cowan). Her conversations revolve around trivial things like using Miracle Whip, instead of mayonnaise, in a tuna sandwich. But a call from “Victor St. Clair” — yes, yet another alias for Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman/Gene Takovic — shatters that peace.

Now, “Waterworks” could also, perhaps, refer to the dam that is about to burst in her life — and Jimmy/Saul/Gene’s as well. The phone conversation we saw — but didn’t hear — Gene have in the previous episode turned out to be with Kim. And Gene was not pleased with how that call went, given his violent reaction.

And now we know why: Kim was on the other end, and she was deeply disturbed by the whole nature of what was said. It sure wasn’t Jimmy McGill; it turns out Gene is still more Saul Goodman than Jimmy. And that jarring conversation was enough for both Kim and Jimmy to do something rash that could affect both of their lives.

Below, Gilligan discusses Kim’s decision to tell the truth about Howard’s death, despite the likely consequences — and how Gene’s erratic behavior will also likely not end well for him. Gilligan also talks about the return of Paul as Jesse, the idea of bringing Kim and Jesse together, and what to expect as the series finale looms next week.

There are a lot of reveals in this episode, but let’s start with the fact that Kim is ready to tell all. She flies back to Albuquerque and signs an affidavit about what really happened to Howard Hamlin. Why did she do it, and how does that set things up for the finale?

We come to realize what she’s been doing all these years. It’s not like it’s a bad life or anything. This Space Coast of Florida is not intended to look like hell on earth. She’s just living a very different lifestyle here. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with working at a sprinkler factory. But when you look closer, you realize this woman is not living the life she set out to live, to say the least. She loves the law. She loves advocating for the little guy. She’s not doing any of that now. She’s writing pamphlets, brochures for PVC pipe and whatnot. She has purposely stunted herself. And there’s something tragic about that. And so when the waterworks finally do start, the “Waterworks” of the title, it comes to me as a relief. When she’s crying on that bus, she’s so bereft. She’s letting it all out and there’s so much sadness there. But it’s a lot of relief to and it just feels like this has to happen. And it’s a long time coming. It should have happened years ago.

This is a new Kim, her hair color is different and she even sounds different. Plus, she has this relationship with a really dull guy.

I think she’s just sort of divorced herself from the pain and the memories and the guilt. She’s just sort of anesthetized herself from the neck up. It probably plays to some folks at first like she’s in witness protection, on the run or whatnot. She’s really not. If you look closely when you first see her at work, she’s going by her real name, Kim Wexler. She’s not pretending to be a different person. The first thing you do when you go on the run is change your name. Once she cops to her sins, to the guilt she has for these terrible things she and Jimmy did, then the healing hopefully will begin.

The moment that I think is going to blow up the internet is when we see Kim and Jesse interact. The streams have been crossed. How was it decided to have these two separate characters finally meet?

I am so proud of our crew and cast for keeping that secret for as long as they did. We shot that sometime in like February or March of 2021, months and months before the rest of the episode. I don’t know how necessary it is as a scene in terms of plot. I don’t know that it really moves the plot forward any. But it just was too delightful to miss. I don’t recall whose idea it was initially, but it made everybody smile. The idea of seeing these two worlds collide, seeing these two characters together. It was just a wonderful thing. And we realized, we’ve got to do this. “We don’t have to do this, but, we have to do this.” That’s what it felt like.

It does make sense that if Kim is still alive during the “Breaking Bad” era that there still would be some sort of contact between her and Jimmy. But it is ugly. Has Jimmy gone full Saul as a defense mechanism? How can he be so cold while signing those divorce papers?

I think we’ve all been there. Not to that extreme, hopefully. But I think we all know the feeling of getting dumped by someone, then having to do the best acting of our lives and pretend like we don’t care. You run into your old girlfriend at a party or something. You’ve got to act all cool and nonchalant. I think it stems from that. He takes it to an extreme that is emotionally unhealthy, to say the least. I think viewers should make up their own minds; they shouldn’t just take my word on it, but it seems to me that “Saul Goodman” exists as some sort of weird armor for this vulnerable, naked little creature underneath. Saul Goodman is this hard shell over top of Jimmy McGill that Jimmy is calcified into. It’s this armor of indifference, of not caring, of not having emotions that could be hurt. I think that’s what he’s doing here but it’s so grotesque. The clownish suit, the Styrofoam columns and the Constitution printed on the wall. She’s horrified. She’s looking at this character he has willed himself to become. And she’s just thinking, “Oh, my God, what’s happened to him?” It’s just a tragedy. We always said to ourselves, Peter, and I, what did it take to turn this guy to Saul Goodman? And how long does it take for him to get there? But we also said to ourselves, how are we going to present this when it comes to this? If we do this right, nobody’s going to want to see him turn into Saul Goodman. It’s too ugly, especially when we know what he used to be like. Jimmy McGill is kind of a rascal, but he basically had a good heart. And he intended to do well by people and it’s just this is just grotesque, this is just sad.

And now fast forward to Gene in Omaha, and he’s acting so irrational. After being so careful, he’s going out to complete the con job, which leads to all these other dominoes falling. And that eventually leads to Carol Burnett’s character uncovering the truth about Saul Goodman.

This is pretty chaotic behavior, isn’t it? It’s money he doesn’t need. Who knows how much money he’s got squirreled away, how much cash and diamonds. We know he’s got a Band-Aid box full of diamonds. What the hell does he need to do this for? It’s very self-destructive. It seems like the thing that put all of this madness into motion was this unpleasant phone call that bothered him greatly, made him kick out the plate glass in the pay phone. He’s got a real edge to him in this episode. There’s no other way to put it: He’s a real bastard in this episode. It makes you wonder what is he trying to do? Is he trying to self-destruct? Is it trying to get caught? All valid questions.

That phone call also triggers Kim to go back to Albuquerque and set up what I’m sure will be an ugly end. Gene also has to know that it’s around 2010, and YouTube or Google will make it easy to find his old ads. Or in this case, AskJeeves.

He seems blissfully unconcerned in the final moments of this episode, right up until he realizes that she knows who he is. I particularly love the scene where Bob is singing “The Tide Is High” as he’s driving. It’s one of the things we’re proud of most on the show, that we can mix the really tense, dramatic stuff with the absurdist comedy. And it all seems to shake out pretty well.

Carol Burnett as Marion, Bob Odenkirk as Gene - Better Call Saul _ Season 6, Episode 12 - Photo Credit: Greg Lewis/AMC/Sony Pictures Television

How close was Gene to strangling Carol Burnett?

It looked pretty damn close to me. I don’t think he was kidding around. I think he was ready to do something awful. And oh my God, how can you do that to Carol Burnett? An absolute American treasure. He has turned into such a monster. A couple of people who watched the episode have asked me, “What do you think made him step back from the edge here in this final moment?” I say, the bigger question is, “What got him here in the first place?” A little moment of sanity prevailed, hopefully at least for a few minutes here. You’d hope as to be expected, but my God, how did he ever get to the point he was going to kill Carol Burnett in the first place? I’m glad we don’t have too much left because I don’t want to see too much more of him being a monster. It was tough in Episode 12 watching him be so unpleasant and unlikable. My god. This is not what I want to see as a fan of the show. I think it’s important stuff and we feel it’s necessary plot wise, but man, what an unpleasant thing.

So how does this set up what we should expect for the final episode? And is this it for the “Breaking Bad”/ “Better Call Saul” universe?

We really don’t have any plans to go forward from here. I suppose you should never say never, but we have no intention right now of extending this world. As much as I’d like to selfishly, we’re really not thinking along those lines. I think Peter’s ready to go off and do new things and I’m ready to do new things as well. But I think the ending is, to me, very satisfying. It was hard-earned, but it was well-earned. And I hope people will agree when they see it. But it feels like the proper and fitting ending, keeping in mind all that has come before. And I hope folks see it that way as well.

By the way, I spotted Holly on the bus, sitting next to Rhea in the scene where Kim breaks down, that was a nice surprise!

I had to get Holly on the show before it ended. And she did a great job. All through the editing process, she kept saying, “Can you show less of Rhea and more of me?” I said, “You know, we have a contractual issues with Rhea Seehorn, we’ve got to show more of her.” I’m just kidding! But good eye. I’ll tell Holly you saw her, she’s going to get a big kick.

This interview has been edited and condensed.

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